Palakh Khanna: So when I reached out to a few mentors, a lot of them said, you're too young to get started. And I think that was a challenge.

And I thought, what do I do about this?

Chuen Chuen Yeo: Welcome to agile leaders conversations. This is a podcast where we invite the human center professionals and leaders to share. What it means to lead in today's workplaces. From the personal stories, find out the greatest learning that guides them through disruption and forge a better way forward. Their insights will maximize your leadership potential, and unlock possibilities for a better future. My name is Yeo Chuen Chuen. I'm the author of Leaders People Love, a guide for agile leaders to creating great workplaces and happy employees. I'm delighted to have your listen in today.

My guest is Palakh Khanna. She's 20 year old youth change-maker social entrepreneur, mentor, teacher, and environmentalist from India. A world record holder, she's BW wellbeing's 30 under 30, India's 20 under 20 and a former regional officer for Asia Pacific. Palakh is also a LinkedIn content creator with over 70,000 followers and a founder the of break the ice, an international youth organization working towards breaking taboos and stigmas in society. Today break the ice has reached more than 25,000 individuals, in over 10 countries.

Welcome show, Palakh. I'm so glad that you made time to be here today. Let's jump right in. Tell us about yourself, your name, what you do, and why you do what you do.

Palakh Khanna: Thank you so much for having me. I am Palakh. I'm 20 years old from New Delhi, India. I'm a social entrepreneur, a content creator on LinkedIn, a college student, also working on a lot of other initiatives as a change maker and as a part of creating more change in the world. We have an organization called break the ice where we are trying to literally break the ice about taboos and everything that society is either ignoring or uncomfortable talking about. So that's one part of what I'm doing. I've been a massive introvert throughout my life, and it really took me a lot to get out of my comfort zone. I'm trying to hope and just help others do that. So that's the very reason that I started out as well.

Chuen Chuen Yeo: Amazing. I would never have guessed that you are a massive introvert. How did the evolution happen for you, because I know that Palakh you speak on stages as well.

So you're a keynote speaker, you're a content creator, change maker, student, plus social entrepreneur, so many things that you're doing right now. Okay, let's talk about this part about being an introvert to finding the comfort and the courage to speak about issues that matter to you. How did that change happen?

Palakh Khanna: Basically, I've been a massive introvert throughout my life. I was the nerd who really didn't have any social life. Had only two to three friends. Was uncomfortable talking about anything, honestly. And I kept to myself because I was more of wanting to achieve better in education. Fast forward to the pandemic, we were stuck at home and that was the transitional point for me. I overheard this conversation between my mom and my domestic help. So my domestic helper was still coming to our house because she's been with us for the past five, six years. And she had her periods at our house, but she was very just uncomfortable asking for pads. Of course you'd have to ask for them. You aren't prepared. But she didn't. She was very hesitant and she was just, shying away from it. And I overheard that conversation because we were at home at that time. And I realized that we cannot push forward stigmas like this. And that was ultimately the transitional moment. Maybe have a platform where we only talk about things not supposed to be talked about, so yeah, I told my mom that we need to stop these stigmas. How do we do that? Ultimately, I opened break the ice at that point. That was my leap of faith moment, because honestly, as an introvert who doesn't talk about her feelings, talking about taboos was a whole different realm of stepping out of my comfort zone.

So yeah, that's how I opened break the ice. And gradually, when I went on LinkedIn because I wanted to learn from other founders. I thought, where do I go? Where do I go on social media to know more about other C-level executives? And that's when I ended up on LinkedIn and learned so much from it, started adding my opinion to it and then just never looked back.

 I realized that now that I've actually gotten out of my comfort zone. Now that I'm running an organization leading so much change, I need to also be able to better communicate my feelings because I've realized communication is the key to everything. I practice a lot, gradually have been able to transition from an introvert to now a speaker in my own personal space. Still an ambivert, not an extrovert. But yes, much, much more comfortable with just talking about everything that's needs to be said. Yes.

Chuen Chuen Yeo: Oh! So amazing and so inspiring. Palakh, there are many clients that I work with who identify as introverts. I'm an introvert to o .There are instances where I would speak up about issues that I feel very strongly about, but stopping stigmas, that's another level all together. What I feel very inspired by your transformation is that be it introvert, extrovert, whatever style we associate with, there is flexibility and ability to change in all of us. We can become ambiverts, right?

I'm sure right now you still get most of the energy from spending time with yourself, but if we equip ourselves with the right mindset and a good reason why we need to speak up about any issue and gain the skills necessary. We can become very persuasive. You have shown the adequately in your short two years with break the ice, how you can be very influential and impactful.

I'm also curious about the stigma. So it was just that one conversation between your mom and a domestic helper and you recognize d there's a stigma. A woman is having her period yet this conversation was so difficult to have. And your instinct was, we need to stop the stigmas. How can we do that? The ownership was immediately very high, so how do it come to a point where you felt that this is something I have to do?

Palakh Khanna: I think that was the instinct that I just had in that moment that it can't happen in my own house. I think that's where the passion started, honestly. Because I realized that so many people, they don't have the access to education. There's so many people, even if they have access to information, there is a whole lot of misinformation. But what about people who have the resources? How do they stop the stigmatization? In that moment, I was triggered. I have to step in. I have to do something about this. And you won't believe when I thought of the idea, it was much more restricted to just periods and menstruation because that was the thing which ignited the idea.

But once I started my research, oh my God! I realized there are so many other things which need to be put a spotlight on simply because people aren't talking about them. For example, mental health, and that was at its peak during the pandemic. Every student, every professional is facing so much mental health issues. Are people talking about it? Not really. Are they getting the right kind of help? Are they getting the professional help or are they just shying away from that as well?

Why not open a space that will talk about diverse amount of taboos. Ultimately, we'll bring it together under an umbrella term of taboo. I've always thought that if I ever do something out of my own will, it will be something in social impact. And then after this situation, I was like, maybe this is the right space for me.

Chuen Chuen Yeo: I'm sure the beginning stages were very difficult, right? So do you remember once this idea was born, you would have hit some roadblocks. How did you overcome that?

[Palakh Khanna: Yes, absolutely. There were several roadblocks. I think initially when I got the idea, I was very passionate about it. And there was this feeling of momentum, but what do you do next, that is a whole different journey.

So I think a lot of people also don't talk about it. People talk about how you start up, how do you become an entrepreneur? But how do you navigate the journey to just getting started is a whole different thing. So initially, I had a lot of challenges. I was still contemplating on how do I reach out to people? Will people even be interested in this? Because again, it's taboo topics. People will question if they want to be a part of it or not. At the end of the day, it's very sensitive.

There were challenges, I think in the initial first three months, when you're seeking out more team members. I was also reaching out to mentors. So I'd landed up on LinkedIn and I wanted to learn from other founders because I never downloaded LinkedIn before that, because as students, you're like, it's a professional platform. You'll go to it once you step out of college.

And when I did that, I realized there are so many people I can also get mentorship from. So when I reached out to a few mentors, a lot of them said, you're too young to get started. And I think that was a challenge.

And I thought, what do I do about this? I can use this as the biggest disadvantage to our journey that you're too young, not experienced enough. Maybe you don't know how the world works. Or you could convert it to your biggest advantage, and we've been able to crack that. So yeah, that was a challenge and I really just wanted to convert it to an advantage, because now every member in our team, we have a hundred volunteers. Each and every one of them is young, 13 to 23

Entire team is of that age range. The moment I realized that we can convert this challenge to an advantage. I said, let's leverage it. We'll keep the team young. So it's young people for young people. That was a big challenge we face, but I think we've been able to overcome it.

Chuen Chuen Yeo: Have you ever had anyone reaching on who was a little on the older side or never?

Palakh Khanna: Yes. So there have been a lot of instances where people are a little older. Again, we always welcome them to be a part or even if they feel like they can't be a part of the organization, they can support it indirectly. .

Chuen Chuen Yeo: So this is a great summary about when we discover a passion, right? So for you, you had a passion about social change for a long time. Do you remember how long ago was that when you first remember it?

Palakh Khanna: Honestly, I was nine years old. I was a part of this environmental protest near our school. And that was the moment when I was like, if I ever do something, it will be around changing the world. A very naive, and a very innocent hope that I had, but I think I've been able to continue it till now.

Chuen Chuen Yeo: This is very inspiring because a lot of people I work with, they may be in high paying jobs, supposedly from society's point of view, they are very successful, but they could be so miserable. The reason is the work is disconnected from their passion. And I often ask them, what was your first ambition as a child? That gives us a lot of insights to what makes a person tick, what motivates them.

How do you navigate the world by being a very young social enterprise founder? How do you reach out to people? How do you turn your greatest disadvantage into an advantage? All these are skills that you have picked up, right? How do you grow these skills actually?

Palakh Khanna: Honestly, I think number one, I would say, have a small plan in mind. I've always said this don't have three, four year plans. Honestly, things change a lot in those years. And you'll realize that maybe that's not something I want to achieve anymore. Have the bigger goals in life, and have the very short term goals in life. Maybe weekly, maybe monthly. And whenever someone says, how do I navigate entrepreneurship? How do I also network the right way? I always say, have a plan and a basic structure and a framework in mind. Whenever you're reaching out to someone, make sure it's not a random person you're reaching out to. This is a person you're consciously reaching out to. You're hoping to connect with, and you know how you can also leverage this network or this connection in the future.

I'll give you an example. So many students come to me and say, how do I reach out to the right person? Even if I found the right person I want to reach out to, how do I do that?

 As a young entrepreneur number one, you need to be very conscious that the person does not have the time to read too much about you. So whenever you're reaching out to someone, make sure it's a crisp way of saying that this is a conscious message. This is not a spam. I know what I'm, talking about, and I feel like we can collaborate in the future.

What I do, I keep a list of people I want to reach out to. Five people in a week, whoever I find on LinkedIn or offline, and I'm inspired by their work. I make sure I write their names and why I want to reach out to them. And then I make personalized messages and share with them. So again, have a template, but don't have a template which is very rigid. So have a basic framework in mind, but always make sure it's also personalized. You want to make sure it looks serious enough for people to consider you as someone they want to network with. Yes, I think that's something that people either forget or just don't know too much about.

Chuen Chuen Yeo: And that's where the personal branding starts, right? No one is too young, too old to start personal branding and bring in the human touch. So if you write your personalized messages, there's a structure, there's a time bound, there is a very clear intention. And have you ever gotten rejected?

Palakh Khanna: Of course, I think every single day.

Chuen Chuen Yeo: How do you deal with it? Or how do you mentor other young people to deal with it?

Palakh Khanna: I have honestly realized that rejection is actually exciting. Because when it happens, you know that there was something wrong in this, so you're able to make changes in it. And I always tell everyone, if you feel like you haven't got a response from someone in the time frame that they said they will be, and you know that you've most likely gotten rejected. Ask them for feedback. Ask them that it's absolutely okay that I have been rejected from the opportunity, but if it's possible, please let me know why. Because if you're conscious about the fact that yes, I got rejected. Let's know the feedback, work on it so that I can make sure I get selected the next time. I think that's a great mindset. I do that always.

If I ever get rejected from an opportunity in general. I applied to so many opportunities because I want to be part of more and more initiatives. I'm a very ambitious person so when I apply to opportunities and I see okay, it's been two months Of course, I haven't gotten selected.

I don't lose hope I share a message with them which says that it's okay if I haven't gotten selected I've noticed that I haven't got a response, but if it's possible, I love to know the feedback and work on myself. It helps so much and it makes sure that next time you are better off to get selected. Honestly, I see it as an exciting opportunity to just learn more about where did I go wrong?

Chuen Chuen Yeo: Wow. That fire and the resilience and it starts with a very positive mindset instead of seeing rejection as an indication of, Oh, I'm not good enough. Rejection is reframed as very exciting and very graciously also, asking for feedback so that you get better the next time.

Let's spend a bit of time talking about ageism. The wider context is people understand ageism as employers not willing to hire older people. How can we make employers receptive to working with people older, younger, regardless of their backgrounds. So I know you have a different experience with ageism. And when you reach out to mentors, they say, Oh, Palakh you're too young to do this. How do you overcome this barrier and establish yourself as a credible partner and contributor towards this social cause?

Palakh Khanna: I think it's a mindset shift that is needed. The thing is that so many people need to realize that it all comes down to skills, not age. Everybody's heard it, age is just a number, but unless and until you believe in that, if I'm able to bring the same skills and I can make sure that the company does well, I need to be given a chance. It's more like that. I think so many people need to see it from that lens and also pitch to organizations in that way, that even if I'm old enough, here are my skillsets. I can prove my worth maybe in the next one month, give me a chance. But at the same time, you also need to make sure that you upskill . Make sure you're upskilling, every now and then. Because the world is changing. Technology has advanced so much.

Just be aware how you are also adapting to it. At the end of the day, ageism can be replaced if you're able to adapt better and you're able to present your skills better. So personally, if I do that, I will make sure I've upskilled myself so much that I say, maybe I have better skills, give me a chance and I'll show you that, prove it to you.

Chuen Chuen Yeo: And you're very consistent in your messaging. The mindset definitely is open. Always looking out for trends, and knowing exactly what are the objections in your receivers or in your audience and you are also very open and honest in calling it out. I know I am young, but give me a chance and I will show you what I can do. Let me show you what are my skills and you don't just give generic skills. You position your skill better than anyone else.

Palakh Khanna: Absolutely. That's the way that you've put it. Precisely. The way that you position your skills to say that I can advance myself and the company to such a great extent that I deserve the chance.

Chuen Chuen Yeo: Yes. And every rejection, it's exciting because we will look for feedback and improve the next time So this whole podcast series is about leaders people love, the title of my second book. So I am curious from your perspective, if you think about a leader, people will love who's the first person that comes to your mind.

Palakh Khanna: Honestly, this is a great question. I'm inspired by so many people, and I try to make sure that I don't restrict it to one leader. But if the moment I hear the question, it has to be Mr. Ratan Tata. He's just so inspiring in the way that he works. Each and every leader that I'm inspired by, honestly, they have so many common skills, and that's what I'm hoping to bring in myself as well.

Number one has to be that they are democratic leaders. Democratic in the way that they're functioning that organizations. They're confident in what they say. They're also very efficient in the way that they lead the company, but at the same time, They make sure that they take the inputs of others in the organization. They're democratic in the way that they are also inclusive of taking everybody with them.

 The leaders that I love, they are democratic, they are efficient, and also adaptive. I have to say that always. I think adaptability is a very underrated quality.

So yeah, my favorite leader has to be Ratan Tata. He's very focused on the cause that he's hoping to push forward, which is something I'm passionate about as well. So he is someone who works on social impact and he's very dedicated to taking it forward. Of course he's adaptive and he's also very democratic. So I feel like that's a very right combination of a very good leader.

Chuen Chuen Yeo: Ratan Tata, chairperson of Jaguar land Rover?

Palakh Khanna: Yes. So he's the former chairman of Tata Sons. Yes.

Chuen Chuen Yeo: He is currently 85 years old. So what draws you most is I think the social cause because he's passionate about social causes too.

Palakh Khanna: Absolutely. So social cause, as well as how democratic he is in terms of including everyone.

Chuen Chuen Yeo: I know you haven't read my book, but we are aligned. My definition of agile leadership is. It's not about being skillful. It's about being relevant, right? I can't proclaim that I'm a very effective leader if I'm not leading people the way they want to be led. So we must know our audience very well. And we can't know our audience very well if we don't listen to them. That's where the democracy and the listening to getting inputs from people comes in right?

I don't know whether it's a generalization. Do young people generally are more motivated by entrepreneurship than becoming an employee? What's your take?

Palakh Khanna: Honestly, it's a mix. For example in India, I think very recently young people have started being like, I want to explore entrepreneurship. Very recent updates, a lot of people want to get into secure jobs. That's been the notion for a while. The idea is you get a secure job, you get money, you settle down and you just enjoy life. But a lot of people today have realized that a secure job is very good, but I also want to explore something of my own. So I think that notion that's been very recent, and I do believe young people are very motivated to get started because now we've realized that we can be a part of building something of our own. We see a lot of people doing it, in our own circles of our own ages. So we've realized that maybe it's no longer a stigma to be that young and maybe we can explore it even when we're young. Yeah, I think that's a good change, which is happening. Hoping that it stays consistent for a while and a lot of people also join in as entrepreneurs.

Chuen Chuen Yeo: So stability would mean different things to different people. It is not something that we can generalize as of now. However, gradually, I think with leaders like you pushing the boundaries, not carrying stigmas forward, then entrepreneurship doesn't have an age. Then everyone has a chance to build something of their own. What are your plans after graduation next year?

Palakh Khanna: I'm hoping to just continue break the ice, also hoping to continue with LinkedIn because I've realized that also helps a lot.

Chuen Chuen Yeo: Somebody gave me this comment the other day that the young people, the Gen Z's and the young millennials are generations ridden with anxiety. What do you think?

Palakh Khanna: Absolutely. Sadly, I do agree.

Chuen Chuen Yeo: We know from a lot of researches, mental health, burnout, stress, right? It's on the rise, especially among the younger generation. What do you think are the causes of that?

Palakh Khanna: I think there are two aspects to it, honestly. Yes, younger people today are facing more challenges in terms of their mental health, because the world changed after covid happened. So I think so many mindsets and so many things have changed after that. There's so much also PTSD, right? There's so much that people are taking back from the covid pandemic and just the overthinking, the anxiety. Also, the peer pressure with education. Everything is increasing day by day because of competitiveness.

But, I also feel like there are two sides to it, and we talk about it very openly at Pre TIs. There is one side that is not aware at all. These are people who are facing difficulties, not talking about it. There is massive stigmatization. They are not seeking help. They don't even know what they're going through.

But there's a whole different side of young people essentially in the world today that are over glamorizing mental health and mental health issues. How? They're saying every single day they say, Oh, I was feeling a little depressed. Oh, I was feeling very anxious today. And it's a very over glamorization. They're using it in a very common way and in a very normal conversation, not realizing that they are actually very serious disorders, which require professional help. So I think that with mental health there's an issue. We need to find the right balance with people realizing whether they actually need that help, or maybe they're just overthinking their way through it. Maybe they actually are feeling anxious. They need the professional help.

So again, lack of information and we're hoping to cover that through break the ice as well. But yes, I do think young people today are facing more challenges with their mental health because of so much change happening in the world.

Chuen Chuen Yeo: This thing about over glamorization, I'm very curious. There are some influencers where we know that they want to normalize the conversations around mental health issues. So you are saying when they post and talk about it in a very normal way, that is not helpful.

Palakh Khanna: So I think what influencers and social media is doing is actually beneficial in many ways. Thankfully. It's very important that we actually normalize the conversations, but there's also very important line that people need to know on what is depression. If they are saying they're depressed. the Clarity on what is the technical, the scientific aspect to it, to really know that it's actually a mental health disorder. So when you commonly use it in so many conversations with your friends and your family, where you say, Oh, I was just sad, I was feeling depressed, sadness and depression are very different.

So knowing where you're over glamorizing it or where you're actually normalizing it, I think that's a major challenge that we are facing. Because of course, availability of so much information as well. So there's either lack of information or over information.

So many people are navigating that way through what is true, what is misinformation, what are myths. So yes, navigating through that. I think that's causing a lot of over glamorization. Yet again, normalization is also very important. I think that's what we do through break the ice.

Chuen Chuen Yeo: Okay. So we want to avoid over glamorization, and we also want to encourage normalization.

So feeling versus symptom. And that's where your three A's framework comes in, right? Awareness, advocacy, action. So when we talk about mental health challenges among the younger generation, trying to cope with a lot of changes, what can they do?

Palakh Khanna: They need to, number one, get the help if they need it. There is a positive change happening. A lot of people are talking about now therapy very openly, which I'm so happy about because I think specifically in Asian countries

I'm happy that conversations have started around it. But what can young people do? Number one, knowing your triggers, your sources of anxiety.

Number two, also make sure that if you know your sources and if in general, if you have information about mental health, talk about it more. We need to create awareness.

There are so many people who message us on break the ice saying that you were talking about burnout the other day. How do I overcome burnout. So with burnout, you need to know why is this happening? What caused it? How do I improve it? And how do I step by step improve it? It will not happen overnight. If you are someone who is possibly diagnosed with depression, you will not overcome it overnight.

So, if you have mental health issues, you need to be more conscious about how do I get the help? Where do I reach out for help? Is it even that I am at a stage where I need help or maybe I need support? And then if you're aware of all of this, then create more awareness. I think all of us can be a part of creating more awareness at the very basic level.

Chuen Chuen Yeo: A lot of people that I work with burn out. So in the workplace, how can they have this taboo topic? Because in the workplace people have to deliver results, and a lot of times it is the volume, or the pace, or the rate of change that is destabilizing employees mental health. So how can they begin to have discussion on such taboo topics in the workplace?

Palakh Khanna: I think number one, I always say this, it also has to come from the people who are hiring them. So in the workspace, it's very important that your leaders start talking about conversations like this so that you feel comfortable enough to also reach out to them for help. That's where leaders have to come into the picture. Since we were talking about leaders, I think it's very important that leaders also become aware of how they have to make sure that people who are working with them and people who are working for them, they feel like they are in a safe space to talk about their mental health and all other taboos very openly.

And what do you do if you're working in a place like that? Make sure that you are expressive and you get help. So many people they back out when they feel like they're also facing similar symptoms. That's the issue. And with workplaces, it will happen because it's a fast paced world. You're getting so much work done. There's bound to be burnout in some place and form or the other. What you need to know is where do I take a step back? Where do I feel like this is the level that I cannot cross because I don't want to be burnt out.

So again, setting individual boundaries and then leaders need to step in to also make sure that those boundaries are met through their efforts.

Chuen Chuen Yeo: So safe space, articulating the boundaries, and then have conversation to make it a win for all parties in the workplace.

Palakh Khanna: Yes.

[00:28:43] Chuen Chuen Yeo: Okay, so there's this saying that Gen Z's or young people are not so loyal. Because they tend to move around jobs very much. I can see that as somebody moves from one job to the next or exposing yourself to a lot of different experiences, you actually gain lots of skills and you expand your mind, your perspective as well. So there's benefit to moving around. Employee engagement and employee retention then becomes a big topic for corporates.

What's your advice to organization leaders if they want to retain and hold on to the young talents?

Palakh Khanna: I think number one, just have conversations. So in a workplace, it's very important that it's not just a positive workplace, but also something that they feel like they want to come back to, and it doesn't need to be fun. It can also be very work oriented, but with a sort of mental flexibility. And it's a very technical term that I've used, but basically they need to know that after the work is complete, they also have the flexibility to enjoy in their own ways for the few hours which are left. I think that's one way of retaining people. That's more of the environment that you create.

And I also realized that since I also run an organization myself, and I have to retain all the young volunteers that we have in the team. It's very important to appreciate their efforts. I think appreciation is that positive reinforcement that will make sure that they say that, yes, I put in so much effort and I have been recognized. I need to continue putting in that much effort.

And with that kind of positive reinforcement, you almost feel like you never want to leave the space because you're feeling so warmly welcomed. You're working well, you're getting the credit for it, and you'll continue to do that. I think organizations also need to make sure that they have training sessions, smaller interactive sessions with their workforce just to ensure that they also help them upskill.

So yes, I think those two, three things. If they can be incorporated, I think it will be a better working environment.

Chuen Chuen Yeo: Hearing you say this, I feel very assured because I have leaders people love global survey , and what you're saying is congruent with the findings. When we look at Gen Zs, what motivates them, care about me as a person, recognition, develop my career, trust me to do my best and challenge me to grow. All these points you have touched on. So it has to do with that mental flexibility to engage, empower, give feedback, and have conversations on different aspects of an employee's life to make it make sense. In many ways, I think expecting people to go to office doesn't quite work at times, because if I can get the job done very well in shorter than the eight hours, what's stopping them from taking the remaining time to enjoy their life, right? Because what is work without life after that, right? So I think that's quite important.

What's one advice you have for current and future leaders?

Palakh Khanna: Get started. Use your passion. Always adapt to the changes. So many people still question on why do I want to adapt to the current situations? You need to, because you want to be a leader of today and tomorrow, not of the past.

And if that has to happen, you need to be adaptive in the way that the world is working. And you can only be an efficient leader if you adapt well. So yeah, that's my advice. I also give myself this advice very often that times are changing, upskill yourself, adapt better to the situation and I just try to enhance that as well.

Chuen Chuen Yeo: Wow. And this is the perfect way to close this interview. The whole discussion about how agile leadership will help people become leaders people will love to work with and work for. Be a leader of the future and adapt.

Things times are changing. You need a different mindset. Different skillset. Be adaptive. Then you'll be sure that you are future proof.

It's been a pleasure to have you in this podcast Palakh. I'm very inspired. I felt very moved when you said choose your passion well. Choose your passion early. I didn't choose as early, but it's better than not choosing and taking the step forward. It's better late than never. So much that we can learn and explore in the world as well.