Amanda: How do you close 50 clients in one month? And I was like, Oh, I don't know. But of course, I tell my boss like, yeah, I can do it. 

So I think I had a lot of fear of failure at the time cause I never wanted to lose my job, but then because I'd failed so much at the time, I was like, I was at rock bottom. I can only go up from here.  

Chuen Chuen: Welcome to Agile Leaders Conversations. This is a podcast where we invite human-centered professionals and leaders to share what it means to lead in today's workplaces. 

Chuen Chuen: From the personal stories, find out their greatest learning that guides them through disruption and forge a better way forward. Their insights will maximize your leadership potential and unlock possibilities for a better future. My name is Yeo Chuen Chuen. I'm the author of Leaders People Love. A guide for agile leaders to creating great workplaces and happy employees. I'm delighted to have you listen in today. 

My guest is Amanda Cua. She's the founder and CEO of Backscoop, a media startup focused on Southeast Asian startups and tech. Launched in late 2021, Backscoop is read by thousands of Southeast Asia top founders, executives, VCs and start up operators. 

Welcome to the show, Amanda. So good to see you today. Tell us about yourself, your name, what you do and why you do what you do. 

Amanda: Hi, Chuen. I'm so happy to be here, and finally get to talk to you. My name is Amanda. I'm the founder of BackScoop. We're a media company focused on Southeast Asian startups and business.

So I started BackScoop about three years ago when I was 19 years old. I had just finished my first job in tech. I was working at a startup here in the Philippines, and I felt like there was no easy way to stay updated with Southeast Asian startup news. And as someone who really like reading news and leverage news to really accelerate my career. 

And when I realized that Southeast Asian startups kept getting funded. There were more and more startups in the ecosystem. 

I'll say, okay, it's really going to get worse for everybody. This reading experience is not that good. So why don't I centralize all the news in one place, so nobody has to go looking for it. Nobody has to refresh websites, check social media. And then after putting it in one place, I'll send it out the same time every single morning.

 And then on top of that curation, being able to source all of the most important news put in one place, we also made the stories really concise and easy to understand.

Because when you would read articles and other publications, they're either too short to have enough information or too long and hard to understand. So we try to give every article enough detail, but keep it concise and more importantly, fun. We want you to feel like you're talking to a friend about their startup.

And that was the side effects group. It was just a newsletter that I was publishing once a week. And then I started seeing more and more people resonate with it. We got more and more subscribers. So now we publish four times a week and we also launched a podcast. And now we also monetize the newsletter and are really trying to grow as a whole media company for Southeast Asian startups and business. And that's where I am today. And that's where Backscoop is today. 

Chuen Chuen: I can hear how learning about the world. Consuming useful information, gaining knowledge about the world is an important part of you. 

So you started BackScoop at 19 years old, right? So this spirit of learning and getting formal education, how do you see these two elements interacting or the relationship? 

Amanda: I feel like when you look at me. If you don't know me, you might feel like I'm not somebody who liked school, but I in fact really love school. I spent a lot of time really reading a lot of information.

I think that's one common thread what I'm doing then and now. So I would be the student who has five textbooks. I might have even bought an extra textbook on the topic. And then for every lesson, I'm going to try to get as much information as I can, condense it into my notes, and then try to make sense out of it. Because I know that every textbook might have different explanations.

I like knowing that I found all the information I could, condense it. And I'm confident that this is all I need to know. And I have the best information in my notebook. So that's something I'd always done. And that's the same thing I do with Backscoop. So I think that's a common thread. 

I guess what happened to me was really not something I designed or planned. So I graduated from high school very excited to go to college, and wanting to go to a very good college. I know that I pushed myself in school so that I could achieve that. But then when I graduated from high school, two things happened.

 One was COVID. It was so hard to commit to studying abroad, studying at a university for that matter, because you don't even know what quality of education you'll get, and you're paying the same price to study online, and I felt as someone who loves learning. This is not worth it, whether I study in the Philippines, whether I study overseas. So I made that decision I don't want to study at least for one year. 

The second factor that made my decision easier was that even if I feel like I spent so many hours of my high school life poring over my book, studying hard, I actually got pretty disappointed with the universities I got to.

Personally, I was disappointed by myself. I applied to 10 plus universities in the US and only one wanted me. And then for people around me, if I went to that university, they'd be like, what is that university? Aren't you just wasting money by going there? 

And I think all those things combined made me think, okay, I think I should just take a year off. 

So that's the reason I didn't go to university. And then I looked for an internship. Something to do during COVID, because if I was going to be applied to university, they definitely asked me, what did you do? And I'd have to have done something interesting and ended up working at a startup because it was the only job that accepted me.

And that's really how I ended up not going to college and what led me to where I am now. 

Chuen Chuen: And a detour, right? But it ended up to be a road of abundance.

Amanda: Yeah, I would say so. When I look back. This job, founding Backscoop. What I'm doing now, being a Southeast Asian startup ecosystem is everything I love, but didn't know I existed.

This is the job I wish I knew existed when I was dreaming of What is the place that I want to be in the future? What kind of work environment? What kind of work do I want to do? What kind of impact do I want my work to do? Because I thought I just wanted to be a finance person or a consulting person.

But now I realize this is exactly what fits me as a person. This is what I love. And I don't imagine myself not doing this. 

Chuen Chuen: Yeah. When you spoke about how you would take textbooks, and summarize, presenting them in the best form in your notebook. This is exactly doubling down on your strengths. And I think that's a signature of BackScoop.

Amanda: Yeah honestly, I didn't think about it until today, but I realized that was the same thing I was doing before and what I'm doing now with BackScoop. So I think there are lots of parallels with who I was before and the job I'm doing now. It's really transferable skills. 

Chuen Chuen: Yeah, and you clearly know what is the educational experience or the learning experience you want, and you're not going to settle. 

Amanda: I didn't want to have any shortcuts because there are different ways to ace an exam. I don't think mine was the most efficient way, but it was the way that I enjoyed learning.

I enjoyed learning as much as I could. Being confident that I knew everything, not doing like any hacks or just memorizing. 

Chuen Chuen: Fantastic. And because in Singapore right now, there's a lot of conversations around decoupling traditional, formal education from lifelong learning and lifelong learning then is the way in which we live our life and has little to do with formal school, right? And with the right attitude towards learning, credentials, certificates matter less. What matters much more is how you consume knowledge, make sense of the world and join the dots to create something that will benefit the ecosystem. That's what I see from you. 

Honestly, when I read your LinkedIn post about this decision. I think back, if I were in your shoes, would I have the guts to make such a decision? Probably not. I can imagine the societal pressure, right? Like you described earlier, what would others say about you? We would be worried, and that drives a lot of human behavior. 

And imagine if you had not found an internship, maybe you would have applied again and then the path would be so different.

Amanda: Yeah, exactly. I think you mentioned the decision, right? People say oh, you're so courageous for not attending university. Taking the gap year.

I was courageous enough to take the gap year during COVID, but I would not have been courageous enough to accept the fact that I had only gotten into that one university and I did not want anyone else to know. It took me this long to actually mention that even publicly. So my courage was only for that one thing.

For me, the scarier thing was attending that university or even telling people that I only got into this one American university. And the other American universities all rejected me.

And this is the first time you are publicly sharing this. 

My LinkedIn post a couple of days ago, I mentioned it there, but I hadn't mentioned it on a podcast before, and nobody has interviewed me about it, so you can grill me about it.

Chuen Chuen: What was the reaction from your parents when, number one, first juncture, at a gap year, deciding when you want to take a gap year and second, after that, you decided to start Backscoop and not go back to school. 

Amanda: My parents are very nice and supportive people. I think I'm very lucky to have them.

When I told them about the gap year, they were okay with it because it was COVID. So I actually broke it down in different factors. One, the financial factor. I told them if I take a gap year, The payment for university is going to be delayed by another year. COVID, financial instability, it's a very scary market.

So I think they're okay, yeah finances. Good idea, take a gap year. And the second was, I told them like, imagine if I take a gap year and I get into an Ivy League because I took a gap year. They're like maybe that's a good idea. So I think my parents are pretty on board with a gap year because of many reasons.

And I think they only just wanted me to be able to do something during the gap year. That was the only thing they were worried about. But apart from that, they were okay with.

The part when they were not so okay with it was when I told them I'm not going to apply to college after this gap year, I'm going to take a second one.

They're like, what do you mean? But then I was able to justify it again, because I said, it's still COVID, we're still studying online. And now I have data from my friends who have attended university for one year, and they all tell me the experience is pretty terrible online. And they're like, okay, fine.

At least you have a job. At least you're earning money. At least you're learning. Because I also was very conscious about telling my parents what's the progress I'm making in my job? Who am I meeting? What did I learn? What are my milestones? So I was very conscious about, letting them know I'm okay in my career. They don't have to worry about me. 

But then when I told them that I'm not going to use a second gap year to work anymore for like my previous company, that all of a sudden I want to start my own company. They're like, don't you think you want to like do that at the same time?

Like maybe you can just make it a side hustle. I was like no. I don't want to make it a side hustle. If I'm ever going to find out whether Backscoop would have worked in this world at this point in time, I have to do it full time because if I do it half heartedly, maybe I wouldn't have been able to build a business or do everything I needed to do to get it to its full potential, where it could have been successful, because if I do it half heartedly, I might feel like, what if, what if.

So I told them, no, I'm going to do it full time. And they're like, and I told them like, okay, I know you're hesitant, but you have to trust me. So this is what agreement we'll make. The deadline to apply for an American university is December. So I told them if by the start of December. I have no promise in terms of my business.

Like my business is a flop. If nothing happens, if nobody likes it, if I barely make any progress, then I'm going to start applying at the start of December, because I already have most of my requirements since I'd applied before. I just have to write some essays. So they're like, okay, fine. At least you made this promise that you're accountable. And then I was just lucky that I think it was November. We got an angel investment from a couple of those other executives in the Philippines. So these are people, at least my parents know.

And I also told them like along the way, like how many subscribers I got this person from Google subscribed, this person from meta subscribed, and I would show them like look, how many people subscribed. So they're already seeing that I was making progress. So because I had lived up to my promise, they allowed me to continue doing it.

And that's also not saying that my parents wish my business wouldn't grow. My parents were actually inviting a lot of their friends to subscribe. So yeah that's how it ended. 

What I realized after all these years is, parents always have your best intentions at heart. I think they're always just worried that, things might turn out badly for me, or people might say some things about me.

But since they realize that I'm okay, my business is doing fine, they're not worried about anything else. They just want to make sure that I'm doing well. 

Chuen Chuen: Very good stakeholder management, Amanda. Honestly, it's a direct parallel right in families, the dynamic is a direct parallel with workplaces and when we have stakeholders who have different expectations, who come from a different system, therefore their belief system is different.

 Instead of blindly asking for support, you actually show with action and keeping them appraised of the progress, of the promise of the business that got the buy in over time, right?

Chuen Chuen: And I'm sure right now, Your parents are the biggest supporter of Backscoop. 

Amanda: Yeah. Until now, my parents still like to share it with other people. Like sometimes my parents ask me, Oh, I talked to this person today. Did they subscribe? 

Chuen Chuen: So this series of podcast is about leaders people love. So when you think about a leader, people will love who's the first person that comes to your mind. 

Amanda: Gosh, I feel like there are no specific people that come to mind. I've always been just getting inspiration from different kinds of people that I meet.

 One thing that sticks out to me, though, is I feel like I get inspired by the leaders who have good intentions at heart, like people who are naturally genuinely kind hearted people. 

I think one of the things that I want to pursue in myself is at least I ended up in the workplace as a naive, kind hearted young person, and I want to grow in the workplace and be a leader who can still retain being good to others, spreading positivity and goodness as well.

It sounds very cheesy, but I think even though there are lots of harsh leaders in the world that's also one style, but I think the style that I want to preserve. At least one aspect of it is, how can you still be a kind, empathetic leader, but still be able to push people to their fullest potential.

I want to find that kind of balance, like kindness, but being able to push people to their limit in a good way so that they can maximize their potential. 

Chuen Chuen: Yeah. And I get a hint of what your potential leadership style is going to be. So think of it like a mirror, as you interact with different people, as they demonstrate certain qualities, some things will hook you.

And that actually speaks to something deep inside you that, ha, I want to have that particular quality. I think these are so important to me. And probably also from a values perspective. Perhaps one of your values is kindness. There could also be one about Fullest potential. That's why these things inspire you.

 I like that you are honest in saying that this is the best I can answer right now because I really haven't figured it out.

Amanda: That's a good point. I always used to beat myself up by saying like, how come I don't know my leadership style yet? Maybe I'm too kind or maybe I'm like, I need to be more harsh. 

Chuen Chuen: I think the context and the responses from people would inform you whether you are too much to either side. 

Amanda: I still have to pick up your book, so maybe I'll figure it out the more I read your book.

We can have another conversation after you read it. 

Chuen Chuen: Okay. So Amanda, in the book, there are 13 themes and one of it that resonates with you is increasing innovation by lowering fear of failure.

So I want to bring us back to the beginning days, where you identify this gap in the market and you are toying with the idea of Backscoop, there's a lot of innovation. There's a lot of doing things that no one else in the market has done before. Number one, did you experience fear of failure? And number two, how did you deal with it? 

Amanda: I feel like my first big failure was when I only got into that one American university. That was rock bottom for me and then after that, I think I just continuously had more and more failures.

 So I was at rock bottom and it's already still failing. And then when I got the internship, I accepted out of desperation because nobody else wanted to hire me. And so I was thinking, I have to make sure I become the most indispensable person at this company, because if I lose this job, I don't have anything else to do.

 I'm going to say yes to everything. I'm going to do all the kinds of work. 

So I ended up learning a lot at that job. I didn't know everything because I had no work experience before. And what they told me was, can you do this? Can you do that? And I always say yes. So I ended up learning about like, how do you edit the contracts?

How do you send them out? I had learned how to do marketing posts, paid and organic marketing as well. I learned how to do customer support. Managing the customers as well, who are already working with us. And one of the biggest things I learned was like sales. 

For example, how do you close. 50 clients in one month. And I was like, Oh, I don't know. But of course I tell my boss like, yeah, I can do it. 

So I think I had a lot of fear of failure at the time coming into the job cause I never wanted to lose my job, but then because I'd failed so much at the time, I was like, I was at rock bottom. I can only go up from here. So I was telling them like, okay. I don't know but I'm going to learn it. And for everything at that job, I always had the same experience.

So they would teach me something I would do well. And then when it would get harder, I would make some very big mistake. And then we would have to talk and then they would have to teach me again. And then I would feel really bad that day. But then what they told me was that every time that happened, I would always bounce back really well.

So that was a key experience for me because it happened so many times in that job with every new skill. I'd learn it fast, I'd be good, I'd fail really badly, and I'd be good at it again. 

So then I realized okay, failure is part of the process. And I could tell people things like, okay, I can hit 50 clients in a month. And yes, I'm afraid I won't hit it. But in this case, I will use the fear of failure to propel myself to do better. So how can I be more creative? So when I was trying to close those 50 clients, I was really trying to make a process that would help me get it. So I would, for example, break down our ICP, look for all the companies.

I'd find every creative way to search for any leads. I'd find any way to contact them. I contacted them on email. Message so many stakeholders on LinkedIn, as long as I could get an into the company and for the email as well, I would try to hack their email. So let's say it's like blank at blank. com. I would try every variation of their name, initials, first name, last name, first name, everything, just so I could get an email in. And I didn't care if it went to the wrong person or the wrong email, because sometimes it would still help me get to the right person. And that process, plus all the cold calls I did, all the messages that I did, all of the follow ups I did get to hit my goal at the last week. And when I started to see that I had this audacious goal that I was afraid of, but I was about to reach it, then it was so exciting. Because when I was like almost at 50, I was like, Oh, my God, I saw how like how much time left. And then even when I hit my goal already, it was so exciting that I was still looking for more leads because I was like, how much higher can I go than 50.

So that's how I felt in that job. And then another thing was like learning about startups. So learning about startups is that I learned that a lot of startups actually failed. They all had their failure stories, but it was through this continuous process of keeping on trying things.

And then I realized, okay, so even if you fail in the process, it might still get you to where you want to go. You might just not know it yet. So it was a mix of those things, like the lived experience in my job, but also seeing that these successful people had also had the same experience.

That made me realize okay, I can be afraid of failure. But I have to know when I can use a fear of failure to propel myself. I also need to know when I should tone down. I should also learn when I should use this feel of failure and tell myself, look, you're afraid, but it's part of the process.

Chuen Chuen: Would you say now that you have overcome fear of failure?

Amanda: Think I always have it. It's just the way I deal with it. 

Chuen Chuen: When you make a big mistake, how did you bounce back? 

Amanda: So whenever I make a big mistake, I would really let it get to me. I would be very upset and sad. I think the way that it deeply affects me, it's also one of the ways that I helped let it go because it deeply affected me so much.

Then after I stopped feeling that intense feeling, it's more gone. It's how I channel it away. I have to feel it in its full force and then I can let go of the failure.

Because I feel like being able to feel like, Oh, I did something wrong. It really tells yourself like, Hey, that was a mistake, and we don't want that to happen again. Instead of just like saying Ah, I made a mistake. Then you might not be able to remember it, or coach yourself to avoid it. 

 And then try really hard and use this bad feeling to motivate us to learn deeply learn about the skill so that we don't repeat this mistake.

Chuen Chuen: I think this is good. For all listeners tuning in, you must pay attention to this part. What Amanda is describing is emotional regulation, right? Many of us were, okay, at least my generation, okay, we were taught emotions are bad. Emotions are weaknesses. So don't show emotions.

Don't need to feel nothing. And there are people that I have worked with who get disconnected from the emotion so much. So in a coaching conversation, one of the powerful question is, how do you feel? And then suddenly they will have to like. How do I feel? They really have to find the feeling and then find a word to describe it.

So instead you must feel it fully, acknowledge that yes, I made a mistake. This has happened. Once you acknowledge the emotion, it will go away. 

So that helps you bounce back. Because the bouncing back process is so important. Everyone, for innovation of any kind, failure is part of the process. What we do about it to bounce back. To support ourselves or even give yourself space so that you can process the emotion. Let it fade away.

The other one I find very admirable is how you made a process for yourself like you set that big Hairy Audacious Goal, the BHAG. And you created your own process that perseverance,

 being resilient, leaving no stones unturned. I was wondering when you try the different combinations of the email, did you ever get like a rude email back like why are you spamming me.

Amanda: Oh, I did. I got one and I will never forget it. So one of the resources I looked at was like, I think Y Combinator's top companies list. So these are like the top of the top cream of the crop companies. So this guy was like, how did he get my email? Please don't contact me again. But he was actually quite successful, like one of the bigger companies and founders there.

So for me he didn't seem very happy. I felt like it was a success. Because he replied to me, that email worked. And I got to reach this person who was this successful, this high on the list.

Chuen Chuen: So there's that healthy reframe, right? Fear of rejection is also a big one that many people experience, right? And then they find it hard to pick themselves up. And in any role where you need to do sales, we have to learn to bounce back.

So I love that reframe that it turns into such a fun thing.

Amanda: I felt it's like an achievement because really until now, I still can't believe he replied. 

Chuen Chuen: The last thing that I really liked from your story is when you knew that you were going to hit 50 clients, right? I think at the beginning you tell me 50 and I was even I myself feel like, is it possible? So the process works, and you are reaching that 50 clients target and it turned into the thrill of winning. Every win gives you more and more motivation. So build a series of success, right?

So for all of us who have fear of failure, it will always be there. Find a way to bounce back fast, right? Support yourself emotionally. Acknowledge that you will feel terrible. for a day or two, and most maybe three. Okay. And after that, change your approach, build small successes because you can convert it into the thrill of winning and eventually hit your audacious goal, just like Amanda did.

What are some lessons you took away from your internship that helped you build BackScoop successfully?

Amanda: I think one thing I learned was that if you can develop the skills, then a lot of the other things don't matter as much. Of course, there are going to be some process, some people who require a pedigree, but then a lot of opportunities can be unlocked if you have the right skill set and the right attitude to things, which was something very surprising for me, because I didn't think that I could do so much work.

I could learn so much things, like so many things, even if I was just a high school student with no formal work experience before. But then there I was, at the beginning, all I did was this one task. Then I did two, then I did three. Then I realized at the end I was doing the work of three people.

And the second was being able to see myself grow because even if you're a very insecure person, I fell to rock bottom.

I was very insecure at that moment, but if you're able to repair yourself and see yourself grow, then I think you're going to be unstoppable. Because at some point I stopped feeling like I couldn't do things. My immediate reaction was, I can do it. I can do it. I can do it. And the moment that you become that person, I feel like.

It's like an unstoppable wheel. They're not so afraid of most things. Even if you're afraid, you're like, I'm gonna keep going. I'm gonna keep going. And that was because I knew I came from zero and then I was able to achieve so much and do so much that I didn't even think possible for somebody like me. The moment that you shatter the preconceived notions about yourself, of how much you can achieve, what you can do, then your growth is pretty much unlimited. 

Then you can also really be much more powerful. Once you see yourself achieve what you never thought you could. 

And apart from that, my way of dealing with failure and being less afraid of it.

Before I was the person who visualized my life being I'm going to go to school, study hard, get into a top university, get good grades, get a really good job, hopefully on Wall Street.

Now I'm going to earn a lot of money climb up the ladder and then maybe I'll start my own company or I'll just stay there and then earn a lot of money, period. But then like I saw that life didn't have to be linear and that so many things could happen and then I started to see so much more potential for my own life.

Like sure, things are not working out now, so many good things could still happen. And that's what I took out of my experience working there because who knew that the intern that was working for free could become a very indispensable employee.

Chuen Chuen: The skill set and attitude and shattering self limiting belief. If we have not even started something, we already said, I can't. Then of course, clearly you can't. What you believe in your mind will become true. But if you drop that T and turn, I can't, to I can, then you are unstoppable.

And life is definitely not linear. I've met so many people with very exciting, colorful career journeys. Even, there are many things that you say that I can resonate with, like in my very unlikely transition because people in public service usually do not leave after so many years. When I came out, I was 37. Some people might think, Oh, that's too old, but I'm not dying yet.

I think I still have many good years to go. It's not... 

Amanda: And you look young too. It helps. 

Chuen Chuen: I think I look younger after I left. 

Amanda: Oh! 

Chuen Chuen: Because I feel the positive energy. When you know that. Yep. I can do this. Yes. I don't know how to do it yet, but I can learn. 

So through our own successes, we actually built our self efficacy. 

Amanda: 100%.

 I think the job really changed my personality.

I was positive among my friends, but I don't think I was as positive, as outgoing as I am now. I don't think I also share as much before. Like when I started Backscoop, I never even wanted to post on LinkedIn about myself. Because I thought it was like self centered, tooting my own horn.

But now I see it differently. Would I have guessed that I would have my own company? That I would have angel investors, that I would be able to even be like a LinkedIn top voice at my age?

That was like never in the cards for me. I would have never even imagined. 

I'm really thinking that whatever you think is not going to happen is probably going to happen in a good way. Life is just so much better in my mind now than it used to be before. It's just abundance instead of thinking that I can only do this. This is the only thing that happened. I allow for outlandish things to happen in the realm of possibility. 

Chuen Chuen: Let the good strange happen to you. And you have abundance in your life. 

On Mckinsey they spoke about both positive and negative effects of increased social media usage. In Singapore, we are probably seeing two sides.

One side is constantly beating themselves up because they compare themselves with perhaps influencers who are living that very lavish lifestyle. The comparison. widens the actual gap between them and the influencers, so to speak, or their friends.

And then there's the other side of the house, the positive effects of self expression. And like I think how you have written on LinkedIn is a source of inspiration for so many young people, right? That it is possible that your career path, your life. It's not linear. You don't have to conform to that traditional way of rising up the ranks step by step, you make your own steps.

If you can comment on what Gen Zs can do, especially today if they are being bogged down by societal pressures, comparison, but they realize that maybe they have a different passion. What's your advice to them? 

Amanda: So I have been on social media for a long time. It has helped me a lot. When I was in high school. It helped me see the world more. This is also the internet, but also social media. I get to see what other people are doing and achieving. Oh, I got to see what are the kinds of people that get into these top universities?

What are the kinds of people who work at these jobs? What are the different career paths? I learned about influencers thanks to social media. I remember it. I was watching a lot of YouTubers when I was in grade school thinking, like, how could they do this for a job? This is so cool.

But eventually, still I wanted to have that typical career path climbing up the ladder. But I think the biggest influence of the internet and social media on myself was broadening my horizon. I think growing up, I had always known that I had wanted to study overseas, work overseas, because I wanted to have an international experience.

I thought that this is the way that I should push myself to become at the top of my game. Like to reach my fullest potential. So that was the way like social media and the internet shaped my mindset. So initially social media was a very good thing for me because I got to see so many things and so many people. But then after I, got rejected by all those universities and I only got into that one university.

Obviously, I was feeling very bad. Then I would see all of my friends, classmates, friends of friends on social media. I see this person got into Brown. This person got into this other, Ivy League this person got into this other place. This person got into a better university than me. Suddenly, there's so much comparison. Because I think I still had a relatively positive outlook on myself in high school, but after college admissions thing, that's when I started to feel more insecure.

So I actually deleted all my social media. I erased myself from the internet. I didn't tell anyone. I just deleted everything. I feel bad to my friends. So if they're listening to this, I apologize for disappearing off the face of the earth, but like I really had to because I think at that point I was feeling quite sad, compare myself to them because I feel like when I was progressing at my job and seeing them, study abroad, I felt bad. 

So I was like, I'm going to delete all my social media. I'm not going to tell anyone I'm going to disappear. And then I'm just going to focus on my business. And that helped me so much. I cannot underscore how pivotal the experience was. It was hard. I would admit. You get very lonely. So if you do this the wrong way, I think it could be worse, but I survived. I don't know if it is a hundred percent the right way, but you have to also make sure that if you do this, warning, make sure you have a social group still.

So I could talk to people I met from my job or the people I was meeting through Backscoop at that time, because Backscoop had been running for a couple of months. So that's the thing that kept me afloat, my family the people I met through my work. 

So I didn't have social media up until sometime last year. So I only had LinkedIn and Pinterest. So I could focus on myself and my job. And then when I decided to come back to social media, I did it very slowly. And at the time I came back, I was already settled with who I am in Backscoop. I feel like I had enough achievements. And I think I also settled it with myself where it wasn't that I wanted to come back to the world saying hey! I'm more successful than you.

That was not my intention. It was that, now I'm okay with what I'm doing and who I am that when I'm beside you, I no longer feel worse than you. It's not about feeling better than them. It's about feeling like I'm different from you. I have a different life. I have different achievements. You have done something different. Nobody is better than anybody else. Nobody's worse than anybody else. And I think that was the right mindset coming back in. 

So it was really helpful for me to step back, re evaluate who I wanted to follow, who I wanted to be friends with what I wanted to do and most importantly, be okay with myself and be selective of what influenced me and my emotions and thoughts.

Chuen Chuen: Wow. This is super insightful. I've never met Gen Z who got off social media completely. 

The way you broke it down, so many key phases, right? At the beginning, definitely there is that comparison, like we will look, we will follow, we compare ourselves and the turning point is when you realize that it is not serving you anymore because maybe the experience was every time you open your phone, you feel down, right?

You feel sad about it and then you decided to make that decision. You purged social media from your life so that you can focus.

This one sentence that you said. Only when you are ready, you came back, right? And you're then very selective. What struck me was, be very clear why we are on social media. I am on LinkedIn, much more for my business. There is a purpose.

What kind of content do we post? It's not to make other people feel bad, right? And I like this one part, we are different and therefore we are all awesome. how I this because when you reconnected with classmates, they're like, Oh, so cool what you're doing is so cool, but I'm not going to feel prideful in that moment.

I'm just going to feel comforted that my efforts are being seen. 

Amanda: Yeah, I was acknowledged, I wasn't feeling like I'm better than you. I think like now having that pause, like two years. Now I was super interested about what they're doing. What are you doing in college?

What's your major now? What do you plan to do? And then there were some people I reconnected with. Now there's so much to talk about because you're able to take a break. And now you come back with a more positive outlook, a curious outlook on everyone else's life. I just hung out with like my friend, like my best friend in high school during Christmas.

And we didn't talk for years because I disappeared. She was telling me like, I don't know what happened. I was so sad. And I was like, I'm so sorry I did that to you. But then when we hung out almost every day. We were like besties again. It was the most fun experience. And now we're still talking every day.

It was really about letting go of the past until I could accept it, because I feel like while I was accepting it to a certain degree, I think I still hadn't fully accepted it then.

Now I could own my past, right? If I continued talking to everybody, I might not have been able to make peace with my past because I still had it like clinging on to me. But once it was not something I was interacting with on a daily basis, then I could be okay with myself. Make peace with my past. Make peace with who I am now, and all these other things.

Great. This sentence, you are the average of the five people you spend your most of the time with, so when you rebuild the network, there's a criteria of who you will allow into your circle. It is like learning as well, right?

What we allow into our minds will take root. Good stuff, bad stuff. It will take root. So we have to exercise the right choice to choose the right people, right content to enter our minds, then we will start changing. 

Another thing I realized also only looking back is that when I let go of everybody else, I'm really sorry for everybody felt bad when I did that.

But it was also a crucial turning point in my life. Like now it's going to be a business owner is going to be a founder. I'm going to be interacting with a lot of older, more experienced adults. But my only experience was being a high school student. So I think I needed to also surround myself with more people I met in a work setting to understand like, how do people interact when they are business owners?

How do they interact when they're in a work setting? Because I really didn't know how to dress when I came to a meeting, so I wear like a suit. Am I allowed to wear a skirt? What colors do I wear? What do you talk about? Are you supposed to talk about casual things? Are you only supposed to talk business?

And I feel like at the time when I was able to let go of the people around me at the time that I met in school, it allowed me to focus on growing into the person I needed to become. Because I needed to learn how to be an adult, even though I was 19 years old or 20 years old. I didn't know any adults except my parents and like my relatives.

So I think that was also something that helped too, because now I was forced to surround myself with older people and learn from them. 

 Yes, and become a better version of yourself growing into who you needed to become. And I'm really looking forward.

Chuen Chuen: I'm definitely going to sign up for Backscoop's newsletter. And I tell you, I love short, fun newsletters. They're informative and useful and can be consumed in seven minutes. 

Yes. 

So it's a pleasure to have you on this show, Amanda. Thank you so much for your rich sharing. I think so many people out there need to hear this.

Thank you. 

Thank you so much. Thank you for asking me good questions so I could share a lot of things too.